How many instances of the Polish or French resistance in Nazi occupied Europe can you provide of the resistants attacking German civilians, raping women and kidnapping people? Occupied people do have the right to resist but by ANY MEANS? The humanist interpretation is that violence should be the last resort only when other means have run out, furthermore that even when you do use force there are rules of engagement you follow. Do you disagree?
I find it fascinating that so many leftist Jews have fallen so deeply into the antizionist line. (I am neither Arab, Muslim or Jewish in case you wonder about my own background) Many in Australia have woken up by this terrorist attack and have received a rude shock that the left is now a greater threat to Jews than the hard right.
Thank you Bruce, I’m glad Glenn Greenwald read your comment so I could find your Substack. It sounds so clear the way you lay it out. I grew up Jewish in a Jewish neighborhood and was told from very young childhood that we were the chosen people. We were better than everyone else. Such bullshit.
Do any of us believe that what Hamas did by attacking, raping, murdering and displaying the mutilated bodies of Israeli civilians, or what Hamas is now doing, holding hostage children, old people and civilian men and women, and threatening to kill more of them, is actually going to do anything to improve the lot of people in Gaza? Whatever you may think of the "right" of colonized people to "resist by any means necessary", this will only bring out much more severe suffering by the people of Gaza, and will not bring about their liberation.
Your prediction may prove accurate. But I put the blame on those who initiated and maintain the apartheid-like injustice, not on those who, however ineffectually, attempt to resist it.
Who is to blame is not really what is important. How to change things to improve the lives of the people of Gaza is what is important. What Hamas has done and continues to do will in no way improve the lives of the people of Gaza. It will make things worse right now and in the future. Hamas is not "resisting" Israel. Hamas has just poked the bear and now the bear will react in ways that make life much more difficult in Gaza. Hamas can pound on its chest all it wants, and celebrate catching out Israel, but that is not going to improve life for Palestinians. Macho posturing helps no one.
I do believe that truth of the Palestinians' story is much far beyond what we can see based on a very manipulated news for many decades ago. Hamas is part of Palestine who were and are very brave to speak out and take a real action against their occupiers. It is time to dig in history and know the true side of zionism that is actually against every single human being. Zionists hate everyone walking in this globe. They consider themselves the God chosen ones. With this genocide the world is witnessing now would be the end of the zionist "regime", a reality that is corroborated even with the true Jewish people who do believe that Palestine would not be the same from now on. Time would respond to many questions and remove the veil on the truth about all the zionists who were and are behind everything evil in this earth. A person needs just to be truthful to easily figure out what's going on. A truthful person who is seeking the truth is like a very thirsty one who is looking for water in a desert. He or she will do whatever is takes to find water to save his/ her life. I think what we are witnessing now before our eyes in the last 20 or 22 days of massacre and killing of innocent civilians, including even babies, women, and elderly people, is an ultimate blind and savage war that aims to exterminate everyone in Palestine and even everything. Every single person in this world has now become held responsible if he does not consider what is happening now a humiliation of even being a human. We can infer the wisdom from the so called the "Batterfly Effect" theory that stands for "the idea that small, seemingly trivial events may ultimately result in something with much larger consequences". This -regarding the actual genocide- obviously means that if an innocent has been killed is considered an actual killing of all the human beings and it may come a time to be treated the same if we at least as humans deny what is happening and history repeats itself and full of example that show the tragic end of the tyrannic systems. God protect us all!
Try to enjoy the following videos: -they may answer some or all of your questions, especially if you seriously dig deeper on your own using trusted sources to discover the flagrant truth-
The truth is highly manipulated by Israelian media.
Check this video out: -you can find many videos that show the kindness of Hamas soldiers who actually keep hostages as it normally done for any legit defense to exchange hostages with their enemies-. Released hostages confess how they were well treated, given food and shelter from being killed by israel that doesn't even care even about its soldiers-
....The woman is speaking the truth .... We hope all the world can see the beauty of being a human... Hamas based on its strong belief in God will never ever heart anyone. They are the most truthful muslims on earth who are defending their country seeking the freedom of their people.... Forget about the cowards even from the arab people who do not have the courage to spread the truth to everyone and deprive also the general public in the world to discover what is Islam. It is a beautiful religion that if a country any country is wise enough would take it as religion with which it can reign or govern the world, honestly, because people come together with it seeking the Love of God to live a meaningful life not a nonsense life. If people have had a change to read The Coran with the bottom of their hearts, they will definitely love the lifestyle of living as a muslim. Muslim means simply full submission to God. Jesus, Abraham, Moses, and All the Prophets, God bless them all, are all muslims without exception but people who like to manipulate the truth said and tell lies about their method of life. It is a matter of salvation and the wise man/woman who genuinely cares about his/her future in the other life called the hereafter that is extremely much beautiful than this life for the good doers. The truth is no is granted eternity in this life and for this major or crucial reason, being truthful is a life saving in both in this life and in the hereafter. More we did deeper for the truth, God is always a guide for sincere people to his light and mercy.
Must refuse the "Israel vs. Hamas" framing. It's Israel vs. the Palestinian people. Hamas is one actor in this situation, which is *colonialism*. As you say, Nat Turner (and John Brown and the Mau-Mau in Kenya and the various South African militants) did some nasty shit, but the main question everyone needs to answer was and is not "Do you support or reject the nasty things Nat Turner did?" it was and is: "Do you support or reject slavery?"
Main question here is Do you support or reject the settler-colonization of Palestine?" Which *necessarily* means the extermination, expulsion, and subjugation of the Palestinian people considered as secondary humans, and resistance to which will *always* include nasty shit. We must not allow them--as they are desparately and aggresively trying to do--to avoid and replace the core issue by posing as all-important a diversionary false-framing question.
Your framing is spot on. Be sure to see the Norman Finkelstein segments on the Jimmy Dore Show. He brings a perfect mix of fact, principle and emotion to the issue. https://rumble.com/c/TheJimmyDoreShow
It's just a political view, maybe naive somewhat but a political view nevertheless consistent with what a fair part of the left thinks about the Israel Palestine conflict. Nothing anti-semitic there at all.
I agree that the primary blame for the violence goes to the apartheid state of Israel. At the same time, the targeting of civilians by Hamas was neither necessary nor helpful
to the Palestinian liberation struggle which needs allies among the Israeli Jewish population and working people everywhere. It confuses people regarding where the violence is coming from, and undermines solidarity needed for Israeli Jews and Palestinians to coexist in peace and equality under either a genuine one state or two state solution.
How many instances of the Polish or French resistance in Nazi occupied Europe can you provide of the resistants attacking German civilians, raping women and kidnapping people? Occupied people do have the right to resist but by ANY MEANS? The humanist interpretation is that violence should be the last resort only when other means have run out, furthermore that even when you do use force there are rules of engagement you follow. Do you disagree?
While it is true that there is huge hostility to the Arab side by the right wing in Israel, this is the result of decades of war. Whereas the whole "Israel is colonial" line is a contrived calumny. Simon Sebag Montefiore recently wrote a rebuttal here: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/decolonization-narrative-dangerous-and-false/675799/
I find it fascinating that so many leftist Jews have fallen so deeply into the antizionist line. (I am neither Arab, Muslim or Jewish in case you wonder about my own background) Many in Australia have woken up by this terrorist attack and have received a rude shock that the left is now a greater threat to Jews than the hard right.
Thank you Bruce, I’m glad Glenn Greenwald read your comment so I could find your Substack. It sounds so clear the way you lay it out. I grew up Jewish in a Jewish neighborhood and was told from very young childhood that we were the chosen people. We were better than everyone else. Such bullshit.
Do any of us believe that what Hamas did by attacking, raping, murdering and displaying the mutilated bodies of Israeli civilians, or what Hamas is now doing, holding hostage children, old people and civilian men and women, and threatening to kill more of them, is actually going to do anything to improve the lot of people in Gaza? Whatever you may think of the "right" of colonized people to "resist by any means necessary", this will only bring out much more severe suffering by the people of Gaza, and will not bring about their liberation.
Your prediction may prove accurate. But I put the blame on those who initiated and maintain the apartheid-like injustice, not on those who, however ineffectually, attempt to resist it.
Who is to blame is not really what is important. How to change things to improve the lives of the people of Gaza is what is important. What Hamas has done and continues to do will in no way improve the lives of the people of Gaza. It will make things worse right now and in the future. Hamas is not "resisting" Israel. Hamas has just poked the bear and now the bear will react in ways that make life much more difficult in Gaza. Hamas can pound on its chest all it wants, and celebrate catching out Israel, but that is not going to improve life for Palestinians. Macho posturing helps no one.
I do believe that truth of the Palestinians' story is much far beyond what we can see based on a very manipulated news for many decades ago. Hamas is part of Palestine who were and are very brave to speak out and take a real action against their occupiers. It is time to dig in history and know the true side of zionism that is actually against every single human being. Zionists hate everyone walking in this globe. They consider themselves the God chosen ones. With this genocide the world is witnessing now would be the end of the zionist "regime", a reality that is corroborated even with the true Jewish people who do believe that Palestine would not be the same from now on. Time would respond to many questions and remove the veil on the truth about all the zionists who were and are behind everything evil in this earth. A person needs just to be truthful to easily figure out what's going on. A truthful person who is seeking the truth is like a very thirsty one who is looking for water in a desert. He or she will do whatever is takes to find water to save his/ her life. I think what we are witnessing now before our eyes in the last 20 or 22 days of massacre and killing of innocent civilians, including even babies, women, and elderly people, is an ultimate blind and savage war that aims to exterminate everyone in Palestine and even everything. Every single person in this world has now become held responsible if he does not consider what is happening now a humiliation of even being a human. We can infer the wisdom from the so called the "Batterfly Effect" theory that stands for "the idea that small, seemingly trivial events may ultimately result in something with much larger consequences". This -regarding the actual genocide- obviously means that if an innocent has been killed is considered an actual killing of all the human beings and it may come a time to be treated the same if we at least as humans deny what is happening and history repeats itself and full of example that show the tragic end of the tyrannic systems. God protect us all!
Try to enjoy the following videos: -they may answer some or all of your questions, especially if you seriously dig deeper on your own using trusted sources to discover the flagrant truth-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJkgzcRae3w
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XTVVdXqZc5Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkXWi2OI6ns
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-MDVuFeIt2A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsGsFB5I7yI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeU2gDNL7zk
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/U3C2tLcQO48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYsEk-St2x4
A very opening eye video _old but to the point_:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtpgGxeCGpM
The truth is highly manipulated by Israelian media.
Check this video out: -you can find many videos that show the kindness of Hamas soldiers who actually keep hostages as it normally done for any legit defense to exchange hostages with their enemies-. Released hostages confess how they were well treated, given food and shelter from being killed by israel that doesn't even care even about its soldiers-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD7NI0tGbp8
....The woman is speaking the truth .... We hope all the world can see the beauty of being a human... Hamas based on its strong belief in God will never ever heart anyone. They are the most truthful muslims on earth who are defending their country seeking the freedom of their people.... Forget about the cowards even from the arab people who do not have the courage to spread the truth to everyone and deprive also the general public in the world to discover what is Islam. It is a beautiful religion that if a country any country is wise enough would take it as religion with which it can reign or govern the world, honestly, because people come together with it seeking the Love of God to live a meaningful life not a nonsense life. If people have had a change to read The Coran with the bottom of their hearts, they will definitely love the lifestyle of living as a muslim. Muslim means simply full submission to God. Jesus, Abraham, Moses, and All the Prophets, God bless them all, are all muslims without exception but people who like to manipulate the truth said and tell lies about their method of life. It is a matter of salvation and the wise man/woman who genuinely cares about his/her future in the other life called the hereafter that is extremely much beautiful than this life for the good doers. The truth is no is granted eternity in this life and for this major or crucial reason, being truthful is a life saving in both in this life and in the hereafter. More we did deeper for the truth, God is always a guide for sincere people to his light and mercy.
You may check the videos below as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyCUFHuIas4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KKvIg9d0Kw
Superb essay, Bruce. Sharing.
Must refuse the "Israel vs. Hamas" framing. It's Israel vs. the Palestinian people. Hamas is one actor in this situation, which is *colonialism*. As you say, Nat Turner (and John Brown and the Mau-Mau in Kenya and the various South African militants) did some nasty shit, but the main question everyone needs to answer was and is not "Do you support or reject the nasty things Nat Turner did?" it was and is: "Do you support or reject slavery?"
Main question here is Do you support or reject the settler-colonization of Palestine?" Which *necessarily* means the extermination, expulsion, and subjugation of the Palestinian people considered as secondary humans, and resistance to which will *always* include nasty shit. We must not allow them--as they are desparately and aggresively trying to do--to avoid and replace the core issue by posing as all-important a diversionary false-framing question.
Your framing is spot on. Be sure to see the Norman Finkelstein segments on the Jimmy Dore Show. He brings a perfect mix of fact, principle and emotion to the issue. https://rumble.com/c/TheJimmyDoreShow
Yes, I saw that Finkelstein hits the nerve.
Thanks, Bruce, I just love the clarity of your essays, including this one.
Are not both peoples of Israel & Palestine "occupied"?
Nothing is worse than an anti-Semitic Jew.
How I got subscribed to this twaddle is anyone’s guess, but I’m fixing that right now.
It's just a political view, maybe naive somewhat but a political view nevertheless consistent with what a fair part of the left thinks about the Israel Palestine conflict. Nothing anti-semitic there at all.
I agree that the primary blame for the violence goes to the apartheid state of Israel. At the same time, the targeting of civilians by Hamas was neither necessary nor helpful
to the Palestinian liberation struggle which needs allies among the Israeli Jewish population and working people everywhere. It confuses people regarding where the violence is coming from, and undermines solidarity needed for Israeli Jews and Palestinians to coexist in peace and equality under either a genuine one state or two state solution.